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The Strengthening the Members Committee...

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26 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:01 pm

bcspace wrote:
Your claim that general authorities aren't ministers springs immediately to mind.

When you come up with something to gainsay the typical definition I used, let me know.

I must have missed that exchange.

What is unique about the LDS Church is that we are all ministers, in a sense. Unlike many churches, where there is a paid minister who speaks regularly at the services, the LDS Church has volunteer speakers from the congregation who give sermons (talks) during Sacrament Meeting.

Our missionaries would be considers our main ministers, in my book. However, the GA's, as general members, are most certainly considered ministers. Also, they are the ones giving instruction at General Conference, and during their travels to different wards throughout the country.

I am confused by you saying that the GA's would not be considered ministers, BC.

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27 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:16 pm

MBA? LLD? How about this?

old.usccb.org/vocations/ProgramforPriestlyFormation
.pdf

They are not ministers because they haven't been educated as ministers. Anointing doesn't mean nuthin' if you don't have the eddjamacation. BCSpace is right. They are not ministers.



Last edited by MCB on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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28 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:16 pm

bcspace wrote:
Your claim that general authorities aren't ministers springs immediately to mind.

When you come up with something to gainsay the typical definition I used, let me know.

Don't bullshit. There were several articles on lds.org that referred to Monson et all as ministers. After they were posted, you fled for the hills, never to return to that thread.

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29 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:40 pm

Psst... Liz... if our GAs aren't ministers, they can't be paid ministry.

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30 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:43 pm

harmony wrote:Psst... Liz... if our GAs aren't ministers, they can't be paid ministry.


Agreed.

That is why I feel that the statement about paid clergy is flawed, and needs to be changed. It is true that the LDS Church does not have paid local clergy.

This, in itself, is unique. I don't understand why this is something that cannot be stated, and stated with pride.

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31 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:18 pm

Couldn't we use some term less offensive than paid clergy? Perhaps something like Gravy Train. We don't have any local Church leaders on the gravy train.

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32 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:20 pm

Drifting1 wrote:
So what did we learn for sure about this Committee?
1. It exists and operates today, right now.
2. It monitors members who it perceives as not towing the line to the extent their behaviour may affect others.
3. It is secretive and shadowy.
4. It's activities are such that senior Church leaders are uncomfortable talking about it and would be, initially, prepared to lie about it's existence and purpose.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn whether Elder Holland has ever been on the SCMC (because it wasn't asked).

We also didn't learn what it is exactly the SCMC does to protect the Church members (like serving as a clearing house of information on suspicious members and forwarding that information to their local leaders for disciplinary action).

Nor did we we learn that the SCMC was the brainchild of . . . wait for it . . . Ezra Taft Benson. alien

Whoda thunk it?



All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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33 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:21 pm

BTW, I found this marvelous post by Consiglieri elsewhere on the net:

If anything, the reporter missed some golden opportunities with Elder Holland on the SCMC.

When Elder Holland said he isn't on that committee, a follow up might have been:

Have you ever been on that committee?

Who is on that committee currently?

When Elder Holland said that the purpose was to protect the saints, a follow up might have been:

And how exactly does the SCMC protect the saints?

All in all a disappointing spectacle.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

So who is on this committee? I don't think Dr. Peterson has time for it. Besides an Apostle or two, what about Will Schryver?

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34 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:27 pm

Moksha wrote:
So who is on this committee? I don't think Dr. Peterson has time for it. Besides an Apostle or two, what about Will Schryver?

My recollection is that when the lid was blown on its existence in the 90's, Elder Oaks was on it.

At least, I believe it was he who euphemistically characterized it as a "newspaper clipping service."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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35 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:49 am

From Wiki

The existence of the committee became national news. Speaking to the New York Times, LeFevre stated that the committee "provides local church leadership with information designed to help them counsel with members who, however well-meaning, may hinder the progress of the church through public criticism.".[7] He denied that such referrals were intended to intimidate scholars. The First Presidency then issued a statement on August 22, 1992 defending the committee based on a 1839 letter from Joseph Smith, Jr. while he was in prison after a period of intense persecution (see 1838 Mormon War), now canonized by the church (D&C 123), that directed church leaders to establish a committee for "gathering up a knowledge of all the facts, and sufferings and abuses put on" church members, and the "names of all persons that have had a hand in their oppressions".[8] The statement indicated that the members were then James E. Faust and Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.[9]
In 1993, apostle Dallin H. Oaks characterized the committee as a "clipping service" that "may have monitored speeches, writings and activities of those suspected of apostasy and passed on material to church officials".[10]

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36 Hard to watch on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:14 am

I found a couple of moments in the interview with Holland to be uncomfortable. I thought he handled the question about the Book of Abraham pretty poorly.

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37 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:14 am

MCB wrote:MBA? LLD? How about this?

old.usccb.org/vocations/ProgramforPriestlyFormation
.pdf

They are not ministers because they haven't been educated as ministers. Anointing doesn't mean nuthin' if you don't have the eddjamacation. BCSpace is right. They are not ministers.

LOL

Look up minister at wiki.

Now Bcspace does not try to redefine the word because he believes it is incorrect. He dopes so so he can try and justify what the church teaches about the importance of an unpaid ministry. The GA's are in fact recognized legally as ministers. So was I on my mission. I find bcspace being very childish in this and some other issues. Reality is that the church does not pay ministers at the local level , but does pay ministers called GA's in the church. Is that really that hard to say this if someone asks? You don't even need to use the word minister if you don't like, but it is dishonest to say no one in the church gets paid for ministering.

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38 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:10 am

My understanding is that Oaks is still in charge of this committee.

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39 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:11 am

Themis wrote:
MCB wrote:MBA? LLD? How about this?

old.usccb.org/vocations/ProgramforPriestlyFormation
.pdf

They are not ministers because they haven't been educated as ministers. Anointing doesn't mean nuthin' if you don't have the eddjamacation. BCSpace is right. They are not ministers.

LOL

Look up minister at wiki.

Now Bcspace does not try to redefine the word because he believes it is incorrect. He dopes so so he can try and justify what the church teaches about the importance of an unpaid ministry. The GA's are in fact recognized legally as ministers. So was I on my mission. I find bcspace being very childish in this and some other issues. Reality is that the church does not pay ministers at the local level , but does pay ministers called GA's in the church. Is that really that hard to say this if someone asks? You don't even need to use the word minister if you don't like, but it is dishonest to say no one in the church gets paid for ministering.

Come on have some respect for bcspace, he went to a good school and it's not as if he is a dodo....

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40 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:07 am

Stormy Waters wrote:I found a couple of moments in the interview with Holland to be uncomfortable. I thought he handled the question about the Book of Abraham pretty poorly.
Has anybody commented yet on the extraordinary circumstance of Elder Holland admitting the temple penalties are "comparable" and "similar" to the Masons?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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41 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:10 am

consiglieri wrote:
Stormy Waters wrote:I found a couple of moments in the interview with Holland to be uncomfortable. I thought he handled the question about the Book of Abraham pretty poorly.
Has anybody commented yet on the extraordinary circumstance of Elder Holland admitting the temple penalties are "comparable" and "similar" to the Masons?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Woah! When did this happen??? Question affraid

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42 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:13 am

I just started a new thread on this subject, Liz, but it was right after Elder Holland denied the existence of the penalties in the present tense and then admitted to the existence of the penalties in the past tense.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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43 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:53 pm

Another priceless moment was when the interviewer mentioned he had spoken to more than 30 ex-Mormons, and Holland ask for a list of their names

pirat

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44 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:43 pm

J Bourne


Guest
That's why my apologetic is too strong for antiMormons to overcome. You can be sure the BBC had to cut and paste and cherry pick to get the desired result here.


Ah the ever loving and cuddly legend in his own mind, the man, the myth, the legend Beeeeeee CEEEEEEEEEE SPAAAAAAAAACE! Shocked

45 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:56 am

White Buffalo wrote:Another priceless moment was when the interviewer mentioned he had spoken to more than 30 ex-Mormons, and Holland ask for a list of their names

pirat

Sad

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46 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:18 am

I wonder big the committee is, and what resources it has at its disposal. I also wonder if they monitor websites such as this.

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47 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:48 am

I doubt that they are much tuned into this refuge. Now I know they watch our regular board.

Welcome!! I know you from another board. I am AKA Jerusha.

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48 Re: The Strengthening the Members Committee... on Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:21 pm

bcspace wrote:
Your claim that general authorities aren't ministers springs immediately to mind.

When you come up with something to gainsay the typical definition I used, let me know.

bcspace: Is Thomas S. Monson a minister?

"Today, as President Monson ministers throughout the world . . ."


Source: Official Biography, Official Church Website, Officially Published by the Church, that being the Official Standard

That and a couple of other questions you've never answered, Mr. My Apologetics Are Too Strong

Now watch bcspace duck.

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