The LDS Church is true.

lululu wrote:What women want is not a consideration in Mormonism.

bcspace wrote:With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

Odd you didn't quote any Mormon women saying what they want. The issue is not bcspace saying what Mormon women need. It is Mormon women saying what they want and having it considered.

But now that I have your attention bcspace:

1. Is Thomas S. Monson a minister?

2. Was the Times and Seasons and Official Church Publication, that being the standard?

bcspace wrote:With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

You act as if adultery only hurts women. Are you saying that the Church being against adultery does women more special favors than it does men? How so?

The same actually goes for fornication and homosexuality. The penalties surrounding breaking the laws of chastity are equally strict for both men and women in the Church.

Your comment shows sexism. It appears that you view women as the "weaker sex" as far as the woman being more put upon when these situations occur.

In the case of adultery, I can sort of see your point, but it is more from a legal standing than anything. If a husband cheats on his wife and leaves her, a wife who has been a stay-at-home Mom may have a harder time supporting herself and the family, particularly if she has been out of the work force for a long while.

I would like for you to explain to me exactly how the Church's penalties and standings on the issues of fornication, adultery, and homosexuality favor women.

With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

You act as if adultery only hurts women

How so? Men weren't the issue raised.

The same actually goes for fornication and homosexuality. The penalties surrounding breaking the laws of chastity are equally strict for both men and women in the Church.

That is correct.

Your comment shows sexism. It appears that you view women as the "weaker sex" as far as the woman being more put upon when these situations occur.

Say rather that you see sexism whenever a male comments truthfully on the issue.

I would like for you to explain to me exactly how the Church's penalties and standings on the issues of fornication, adultery, and homosexuality favor women.

I think you need to read my comment more carefully and not read something that isn't there but is perhaps a sticky note pasted onto your feminist colored glasses that you forgot about.

I see you are out and about bcspace aka the question dodger.

So what's your answer?

lululu wrote:Odd you didn't quote any Mormon women saying what they want. The issue is not bcspace saying what Mormon women need. It is Mormon women saying what they want and having it considered.

But now that I have your attention bcspace:

1. Is Thomas S. Monson a minister?

2. Was the Times and Seasons and Official Church Publication, that being the standard?

AdminLiz wrote:
Drat! Somehow I lost a post! I will try to repeat what I had said previously. GRR...

I have known Paul for quite a few years now. Divorces are all complicated, and there are always two sides to everything.

I firmly believe that if Paul's wife had not chosen to leave, Paul would have remained a faithful, monogamous husband to her, even with his homosexual feelings.

I do understand his wife's perspective as well. She probably wanted to feel truly sexually desired as a woman. Paul may not have been able to give her that. They had children together, so obviously they had sex, but that does not mean that it was necessarily the sex with the type of connection that happens with someone you are truly sexually attracted to. I am sure it was a frustrating situation for both of them, and, in my opinion, both of them acted selflessly for quite some time.

I very much tend to agree. Marriage for me was a long and hard road. My ex remarried to a man who is crazy about women, moreover, her. That is exactly what my ex needs. I'm happy for her. I'm even happier for me, as I've been able to have lots of sex with men and am prepared to meet that very special someone, someday.

Paul O

lululu wrote:
2. Was the Times and Seasons and Official Church Publication, that being the standard?

When Joseph Smith was the editor you bet it was -- as he said, and took full responsibility for his lord and savior. I don't give a rat's ass if Mormons today deny it. Mormons today aren't really into Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. They are into new Mormonism that has gone way outside the bounds of Joe Smith's kindgom and Brigham Young's whoredoms. Mormonism today is no longer about Joe Smith. It's about trying to be accepted as world Christians at any cost. Mormons want into the Christian circle and are willing to dump their old religion to do it.

Meet the new and improved Mormons!

Paul O

LDS Homosexual men, along with virtually all other LDS men, have been commanded to get married by their LDS Church leaders. The 13th President of the LDS Church, Ezra Taft Benson stated in 1988:

Remember the counsel of Elder Bruce R. McConkie that "the most important single thing that any Latter-day Saint ever does in this world is to marry the right person in the right place by the right authority" (Choose an Eternal Companion, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year, Provo, 3 May 1966, p. 2).
Understand that temple marriage is essential to your salvation and exaltation.

...

My dear single adult brethren, we are also concerned. We want you to know that the position of the Church has never changed regarding the importance of celestial marriage. It is a commandment of God. The Lord’s declaration in Genesis is still true: "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone" (Gen. 2:18).
To obtain a fulness of glory and exaltation in the celestial kingdom, one must enter into this holiest of ordinances.
Without marriage, the purposes of the Lord would be frustrated. Choice spirits would be withheld from the experience of mortality. And postponing marriage unduly often means limiting your posterity, and the time will come, brethren, when you will feel and know that loss.

Here is a Picture of a woman that I would have liked to get married in the temple with.

Shulem wrote:

lululu wrote:
2. Was the Times and Seasons and Official Church Publication, that being the standard?

When Joseph Smith was the editor you bet it was --

It was only an official publication if bcspace says it was an official publication.

Unfortunately, at times like this, bcspace becomes as scarce as GA's cleaning the ward house toilets.

PS love your avatar. Tell me you're one of the boys there.

lululu wrote:
It was only an official publication if bcspace says it was an official publication.

Unfortunately, at times like this, bcspace becomes as scarce as GA's cleaning the ward house toilets.

PS love your avatar. Tell me you're one of the boys there.

bcspace is ONLY one little Mormon in a big church. He's not really a good representation of all things Mormon. He has an opinion and thinks he is able to represent his church in an apologetic manner, but there aren't very many people on either side of the aisle that accept his ideas as authoratative. He's arguing out of thin air and pretty much has zero confidence around here. Maybe he preaches simply in effort to save his own dying testimony.

Paul O

bcspace is ONLY one little Mormon in a big church. He's not really a good representation of all things Mormon. He has an opinion and thinks he is able to represent his church in an apologetic manner, but there aren't very many people on either side of the aisle that accept his ideas as authoratative.

And most of those probably don't go to Church very often. If they do, they're afraid to ask their Bishop or Stake President what constitutes as doctrine because they know what the answer will be. Instead, they live in a little SLDS world where they can get a few dozen people to support their apostate theories.
lol

However, notice how quick they are to adopt the Newsroom as doctrine when it suits them........

bcspace wrote:

bcspace is ONLY one little Mormon in a big church. He's not really a good representation of all things Mormon. He has an opinion and thinks he is able to represent his church in an apologetic manner, but there aren't very many people on either side of the aisle that accept his ideas as authoratative.

And most of those probably don't go to Church very often. If they do, they're afraid to ask their Bishop or Stake President what constitutes as doctrine because they know what the answer will be. Instead, they live in a little SLDS world where they can get a few dozen people to support their apostate theories.
lol

However, notice how quick they are to adopt the Newsroom as doctrine when it suits them........

I'd say you're closer to a real Mormon than most of the MDDers, but really most Mormons assume anything that comes out of a GA's mouth is doctrine, published by the church or not.

bcspace wrote:However, notice how quick they are to adopt the Newsroom as doctrine when it suits them........

For the sake of formality and respect, perhaps we could agree to use the title Elder Newsroom of the First Quorum of the Media.

For the sake of formality and respect, perhaps we could agree to use the title Elder Newsroom of the First Quorum of the Media.

It is funny, but not respectful as such communicates an inaccuracy.

bcspace wrote:

With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

You act as if adultery only hurts women

How so? Men weren't the issue raised.

The same actually goes for fornication and homosexuality. The penalties surrounding breaking the laws of chastity are equally strict for both men and women in the Church.

That is correct.

Your comment shows sexism. It appears that you view women as the "weaker sex" as far as the woman being more put upon when these situations occur.

Say rather that you see sexism whenever a male comments truthfully on the issue.

I would like for you to explain to me exactly how the Church's penalties and standings on the issues of fornication, adultery, and homosexuality favor women.

I think you need to read my comment more carefully and not read something that isn't there but is perhaps a sticky note pasted onto your feminist colored glasses that you forgot about.

I think that it is you who is reading into things a bit here, BC. I will give it benefit of the doubt that we likely both are. Perhaps we can start over?

You made the following statement:

BC wrote:With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

Considering that the Church equally disciplines both men and women equally for these acts, how is this an example of the Church showing a primary consideration for women? It seems that this would be an example of the Church showing a primary consideration for BOTH men and women equally. That was my point.

I do agree that when it comes to issues involving adultery and fornication, there are certain facts that simply cannot be ignored. With fornication, it is the woman who ends up carrying the baby for nine months when a child is conceived out of wedlock And, I think that the LDS Social Services, and other programs do a good job of helping these women.

When it comes to adultery, as I stated previously, since women are often stay at home moms, if a situation occurs where a man is cheating on his wife and leaves, the woman can have a harder time supporting the family and juggling things. I feel that the Church does do an excellent job in recognizing these situations as well. I think that is part of the reason why there are, often times, tougher standards for priesthood holders in these cases.

With those things being established, could you tell me how, exactly, the Church's injunctions against homosexuality show primary consideration for women in Mormonism?

This is not an attempt to trap you or trump you in a debate. This is a sincere question.

bcspace wrote:
And most of those probably don't go to Church very often. If they do, they're afraid to ask their Bishop or Stake President what constitutes as doctrine because they know what the answer will be. Instead, they live in a little SLDS world where they can get a few dozen people to support their apostate theories.
lol

However, notice how quick they are to adopt the Newsroom as doctrine when it suits them........

The answers you get from today's bishops and stake presidents is different than the answers you'd get from bishops and stake presidents of yesteryear. You see, the changing world of Mormonism makes for different Mormon religions depending on what era you lived in or experienced.

Today's Mormonism is not yesterday's Mormonism. I'll grant that. Really, some of the bishops today know nothing about what bishops knew long time ago. Mormonism is lots of different religions rolled up in one. Regardless, it's all false.



Paul O

AdminLiz wrote:

bcspace wrote:

With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

You act as if adultery only hurts women

How so? Men weren't the issue raised.

The same actually goes for fornication and homosexuality. The penalties surrounding breaking the laws of chastity are equally strict for both men and women in the Church.

That is correct.

Your comment shows sexism. It appears that you view women as the "weaker sex" as far as the woman being more put upon when these situations occur.

Say rather that you see sexism whenever a male comments truthfully on the issue.

I would like for you to explain to me exactly how the Church's penalties and standings on the issues of fornication, adultery, and homosexuality favor women.

I think you need to read my comment more carefully and not read something that isn't there but is perhaps a sticky note pasted onto your feminist colored glasses that you forgot about.

I think that it is you who is reading into things a bit here, BC. I will give it benefit of the doubt that we likely both are. Perhaps we can start over?

You made the following statement:

BC wrote:With injunctions against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality, women indeed are shown primary consideration in Mormonism.

Considering that the Church equally disciplines both men and women equally for these acts, how is this an example of the Church showing a primary consideration for women? It seems that this would be an example of the Church showing a primary consideration for BOTH men and women equally. That was my point.

I do agree that when it comes to issues involving adultery and fornication, there are certain facts that simply cannot be ignored. With fornication, it is the woman who ends up carrying the baby for nine months when a child is conceived out of wedlock And, I think that the LDS Social Services, and other programs do a good job of helping these women.

When it comes to adultery, as I stated previously, since women are often stay at home moms, if a situation occurs where a man is cheating on his wife and leaves, the woman can have a harder time supporting the family and juggling things. I feel that the Church does do an excellent job in recognizing these situations as well. I think that is part of the reason why there are, often times, tougher standards for priesthood holders in these cases.

With those things being established, could you tell me how, exactly, the Church's injunctions against homosexuality show primary consideration for women in Mormonism?

This is not an attempt to trap you or trump you in a debate. This is a sincere question.

Bumping for BC.

I think bc has been caught with his pants down on this one.

consiglieri wrote:I think bc has been caught with his pants down on this one.

Now, now...be nice.

My question was very sincere.

If I honestly misread BC regarding him being sexist, then I apologize. However, I think that he equally automatically read aggressive feminism into my response.

I clarified my stance, and give him an sincere opportunity to do the same.

AdminLiz wrote:Bumping for BC.

Here bcspace, here bcspace, we know you're out there, come here bcspace.

lululu wrote:I see you are out and about bcspace aka the question dodger.

So what's your answer?

lululu wrote:Odd you didn't quote any Mormon women saying what they want. The issue is not bcspace saying what Mormon women need. It is Mormon women saying what they want and having it considered.

But now that I have your attention bcspace:

1. Is Thomas S. Monson a minister?

2. Was the Times and Seasons and Official Church Publication, that being the standard?